Collecting art before the blockchain, NFT's and smart contracts, was a rather difficult task for obvious logistic reasons. Now it is possible and affordable to own a piece of art you like along with the fact that it's unique and fundamentally yours. Something we’ve not been able to do until now.

Because of the transparency of the blockchain, a new era of trading has begun, making it trivial to track down the details of a transaction, provenance, and more important, the authenticity of it.

At TGAM we believe that collecting is a way of also deciding what future we want. By investing and getting involved in the development of digital art, we are supporting innovation and artist evolution. Collectors are setting an important precedent for the future to come when deciding who and what to invest in.

***

Today we enjoy the opportunity to discuss about art, NFT's, Crypto and what not with @tz1hyNv7RBzNPGLpKfdwHRc6NhLW6VbzXP3N.

*Hello Lars! Thank you very much for joining us today. How are you?*

Hello, considering market conditions i’m doing pretty good! I’m currently finishing up my studies and looking forward to job hunting!

*Let’s make a proper introduction, who is pronoia?*

I’m a 24 year old Dutch art collector and technology lover. I have been in the crypto space since 2016, investing in and researching many blockchains along the years. During my University studies as a New media and digital technology major in Utrecht I discovered NFTs, and fell in love with them.&#x20;

Ever Since I have been an active collector and community member within the Tezos and Ethereum ecosystem. My main interest is in generative art and last year I had the pleasure to release my own collection created with the help of AI.&#x20;

::embed-media[]{href="https://twitter.com/Pronoia10/status/1602477947193114625"}

*You created your tez wallet account in March 2021, but when did you start paying attention to NFTs?*

A few months before the creation of my Tezos wallet I started out by collecting some collectibles by the artist [SHAKKABLOOD](https://twitter.com/shakkablood) on Ethereum. Because I did not have loads of capital to deploy, Ethereum quickly became way to expensive for my taste.&#x20;

That is when I discovered[ Hic et Nunc](https://phemex.com/academy/what-is-hit-et-nunc) on tezos, and immediately felt it was a preferable experience. The grass roots nature of the network combined with the low barrier of entry really sealed the deal for me. The price of Tezos at the moment is a real burden for many of us on the network but I believe it has a real chance to thrive in the coming years

::video[Donut morph by miguelgarest]{src="ipfs://QmSzxnhyaV4MR6wwhYFSVVGi64Yqg9QU8N3h8tBEMys4cw"}

*Do you have any previous background in art?*

I don’t have a background in art beyond being an art lover. Both my father and mother brought me to museums when I was younger, and I was especially interested in music from a young age. When I was 14 I started my own band and I have loved experimenting with music ever since. Digital art felt like a natural fit for me, as I have always been a lover of intricate game art and world building. Gaming has been very important in my life.

::tezos-storage-pointer[]{contract="KT1U6EHmNxJTkvaWJ4ThczG4FSDaHC21ssvi" path="token_metadata::892482"}

*What does a typical day look like for pronoia?*

To be honest my days have been filled with a few things the last few years. Collecting and looking for art, doing stuff for university and spending time with my girlfriend or gaming. I also like to hang out with friends or go into the city from time to time.&#x20;

I am also an avid movie and series watcher and in general enjoy having a lot of free time. This will most likely change soon as i’m preparing for the job hunt now that my studies are done (I have taken a bit too long with my study hehe).

::tezos-storage-pointer[]{contract="KT1KEa8z6vWXDJrVqtMrAeDVzsvxat3kHaCE" path="token_metadata::420"}

*It is not a secret how passionate you are about art, going as far as tattooing HeartYou heart on your leg. You started collecting some grails on tezos quite a long time ago before going full generative art degen mode. What pieces hold a special place in your collection from the early days of collecting?*

Almost all the pieces from those early days collecting hold a very special place in my heart. [HeartYou](https://twitter.com/XXHeartYou) in particular really inflamed my love for street art vibes and general variety in stylistic choices. [Synesthesia](https://twitter.com/synesthesiaart) was another artist that excited me almost every week with new pieces that blew my mind. In general I love artists that are doing something that is beyond what I previously thought was possible.

::tezos-storage-pointer[]{contract="KT1U6EHmNxJTkvaWJ4ThczG4FSDaHC21ssvi" path="token_metadata::598127"}

*You have publicly declared your love and affinity to Tezos, what are the tech considerations of this claim?*

I won’t get into too much technical detail but i’ll dive in a little. The basic need for adaptability in blockchain is becoming ever more apparent, and there are a few ways blockchains deal with this. On Ethereum a major upgrade to the consensus algorithm or base layer mechanics require a fork. I see a fork as a technical problem, and not a solution to the adaptive problems facing blockchains.

Tezos is the only blockchain that has had this many upgrades, in a short time, that have been done on chain by a fully implemented voting mechanism. Gas efficiency has improved, many base layer functions have been added, layer two integration is getting implemented right now.&#x20;

All these things would have required painstakingly preparing for another dangerous fork, that essentially requires you to “*choose*” which of the analogue chains is the “*real*” one with value. Forking makes no sense to me on a 10-20 year time scale.

::tezos-storage-pointer[]{contract="KT1KEa8z6vWXDJrVqtMrAeDVzsvxat3kHaCE" path="token_metadata::508428"}

*Last year you spent almost 60k tez on NFTs, does it scare you to see those numbers?*

Well, I sold 1 NFT by @tz1gBXG9fg8RMDH69KfKqwoTH5sFDmzt5yzm for 83k, so no. What did scare me is the amount of money I lost by holding Tezos through this year from 5.5 dollars to 70 cents.

*People may think collectors like you are billionaires, but we have seen you selling art too. How do you deal with selling art?* &#x20;

The beautiful thing about blockchain based art is that it is on a public ledger and the files are (most of the time) on public decentralized databases like [IPFS](https://ipfs.tech/). This means that I can always still enjoy the artworks even after I have sold them.&#x20;

For example, I have a few artworks signed in my house that I have already sold on the blockchain, ownership is just a part of the puzzle. I am also definitely not a billionaire.

::tezos-storage-pointer[]{contract="KT1KEa8z6vWXDJrVqtMrAeDVzsvxat3kHaCE" path="token_metadata::12378"}

*Do you resonate with the idea of being an art trader?*

Yes, I like the idea of trading art as a passion. I think the notion that you have to keep art to be an art lover is not right for me. I enjoy creating opportunities for artists to grow beyond being collected by me.

::embed-media[]{href="https://twitter.com/Pronoia10/status/1588691948503977984"}

*You have been very prolific on irl events. While everything seems to happen on the screen, how do you see these kinds of events in the future?*

The IRL events really make the space feel like a much more real place. Anonymity is a great virtue in this space, but it makes truly connecting with people a lot harder.&#x20;

Events allow us to experience each other in our most vulnerable forms, which is important for social cohesion. I have met people at events who might have said some not so nice things to me online, just to discover they are actually just normal and good folks. I know we love being in this online world, but we cannot underestimate being together in real life.

::tezos-storage-pointer[]{contract="KT1KEa8z6vWXDJrVqtMrAeDVzsvxat3kHaCE" path="token_metadata::48791"}

*Following on that, real life events seem to be a very different environment than in the digital ecosystem. How do you see the relationship between the traditional art world and this new digital era?*

The traditional art world is just dipping its toes into this space, I find it very enjoyable to talk to them about this journey. Social and financial conventions are being turned on their heads, and they seem to have a hard time grasping these new concepts. Trad traders can learn a lot from degens, and degens need to learn a lot from them as well.

::embed-media[]{href="https://twitter.com/Pronoia10/status/1591495235028545536"}

*Talking about selling, the largest NFT marketplace (OpenSea) announced a long time ago Tezos support, but we haven’t seen that yet. It seems there are some political reasons behind it. Do you think it will happen?*&#x20;

Top 10 anime betrayal type situation, I will probably view [OpenSea](https://opensea.io/) as greedy for a very long time because of this. My suspicion is that they took a bigger bag from [Solana](https://solana.com/es) (and probably mister [SBF](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Bankman-Fried)).

*Those same marketplaces have probably gotten so big because of PFP projects. What do you think about the PFP trend?*&#x20;

I have some PFPs and I think they are a very important part of the cultural trends associated with web3. Choosing your own identity in the digital realm and tying it to a certain community or social status are a huge part of the web3 ethos.&#x20;

The financial reality of that market is one of exploitation and gambling, and as a socially conscious person I recognise how awful it makes the space look.&#x20;

[Web3](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web3) will be much bigger than these things in the future, and I feel like their importance will fade away, while the concept of identity will remain important.

::embed-media[]{href="https://twitter.com/Pronoia10/status/1588250735107522561"}

*Talking about marketplaces, ETH and the merge to POS was a great step for the art ecosystem, but numbers show that Tezos is catching up really quick on the number of transactions, yet still we’re a bit ignored when looking at volumes. Do you think TEZ can really be the blockchain of reference for art?*

Yes, but beyond that I believe the technology that Tezos employs will allow it to slowly engulf more then just art markets.&#x20;

Gaming and [Defi](https://www.investopedia.com/decentralized-finance-defi-5113835) for example are ripe to be further explored by Tezos devs. I am fully aware of the current lackluster position of Decentralized applications on Tezos, but believe that these things take time, and that Tezos is one of the only chains that has a true chance to do it.&#x20;

::embed-media[]{href="https://twitter.com/Pronoia10/status/1590838654330867713"}

::embed-media[]{href="https://twitter.com/Pronoia10/status/1590026754730885121"}

*There has been a lot of controversy with Solana and its lack of transparency. There are clearly a lot of red flags in how the blockchain operates but that hasn’t seemed to worry artists, who have shifted in masses from Tezos to Solana in the hope of better sales, that in fact are happening. We always recommend reading as much as you can to create your own opinion, but in previous conversations we discussed this topic and you made some pretty good points. How would you explain what’s going on with Solana (especially with Abstract Art)?*

I feel like it’s not my place to comment on Solana at this point, as it’s been hurt beyond anything by the situation with FTX and SBF. Solana itself has always been centralized, with no clear path to true decentralization. I believe there was a chance for an art ecosystem, but I believe artists at this point should recognize it’s not going to be the place.

::tezos-storage-pointer[]{contract="KT1KEa8z6vWXDJrVqtMrAeDVzsvxat3kHaCE" path="token_metadata::152490"}

*You have been part of quite a few big transactions, to date, one of the biggest sales of a single piece of art on Tezos. How are these kinds of transactions cooked?*

Yeah, my @tz1gBXG9fg8RMDH69KfKqwoTH5sFDmzt5yzm sale was the biggest single sale on Tezos to date. I think with those kinds of pieces, the best thing you can do is just wait. Choosing the right pieces is your best chance at getting one of these deals, beyond that it’s just a bit of talking with interested folks. I’m a pretty social guy and a pretty decent negotiator which helps.

*Do you see more of these big transactions happening short term in Tezos?*

Short term a lot less (the volume and capital in the market are gone). But in the long term I see these happening again for sure. Don’t ask me for a timeframe cause i’ve been terrible in predicting the reality of the markets.

::embed-media[]{href="https://twitter.com/Pronoia10/status/1591423699076673536"}

*Talking about transactions, it has been a horrible year for the crypto market. While we try to separate conversations about trading and art, it is an undeniable problem to see how low Tezos currently is (at the moment of speaking at 0.88€). This represents a huge fear for artists who are trying to make a living out of NFTs. Do you think we reached the bottom or can we expect lower lows?*

I am probably the worst person to ask this question. I made the largest amount of tezos from selling artworks of any account on the tezos network this year, and still managed to lose a lot of money in USD terms.&#x20;

I held Tezos believing that It would not end up at these prices, and I’m still holding it till this day. Nobody knows where it’s gonna go, I just rely on the fact that I believe in the blockchain and the people on it. I have to admit it has hurt me a lot the way Tezos has gone from around 6 dollars to 70 cents now, it’s honestly pretty horrible.

::tezos-storage-pointer[]{contract="KT1KEa8z6vWXDJrVqtMrAeDVzsvxat3kHaCE" path="token_metadata::275920"}

*Let’s get back to art. What were your first thoughts when you stumbled upon generative art?*

My main reaction when discovering the depths of generative art is an incredible sense of wonder at what is possible. I have never been a coder myself so a lot of these artworks have felt like pure magic. I have been convinced throughout this year that generative art is the single most important artistic genre in the 21st century.

Together with AI art, it represents a harmony between the physical and the digital like no other genre can.

::tezos-storage-pointer[]{contract="KT1KEa8z6vWXDJrVqtMrAeDVzsvxat3kHaCE" path="token_metadata::4996"}

*What technical features do you look at when collecting new art?*

I like the idea of harmony and chaos being in balance. When looking for this balance I tend to find myself looking at artworks that explore complexity in a simple way. Fragments of A Wave by Ryan Bell is a great example of creating very complex structures with very simple assets, this really tickles my interest.

::embed-media[]{href="https://twitter.com/zachlieberman/status/1603027801493446657"}

*In a recent tweet, Zach Lieberman mentioned that he was surprised by how much "generative art is trying too hard to look like paper" and "why the need to simulate a paper medium". Do you share this point of view?*

Much of the generative art that has emerged tries to replicate or simulate the feeling that traditional art has. In essence that is a totally natural continuation of what has always happened in art, although sometimes it is done to a tiresome extent.&#x20;

I think most people can feel for themselves when something is “too much” like something else, or whether it’s something new inspired by the old. Great artists do steal in the end.

::tezos-storage-pointer[]{contract="KT1U6EHmNxJTkvaWJ4ThczG4FSDaHC21ssvi" path="token_metadata::1169326"}

&#x20;*What are your favorite recent discoveries (artist-wise)?*

Recently I have been focussed on my personal life and studies more so I have not had a lot of time to make discoveries. I am however very much excited by all the new AI artists that have been emerging in the space. I have a harder time collecting this art from a financial perspective, but it is a great personal interest of mine to follow all the new developments in that area.&#x20;

::tezos-storage-pointer[]{contract="KT1KEa8z6vWXDJrVqtMrAeDVzsvxat3kHaCE" path="token_metadata::120711"}

*What piece will you never sell?*

I don’t expect to sell the physical painting that HeartYou made for me after getting my tattoo.&#x20;

&#x20;*On a final note, where do you see yourself in 10 years? And Tezos?*

I always try to refrain from looking too much into the future, I focus on living in the now, and trying to be happy with the person I am.

&#x20;I hope i’ll be happy in the “now” that is 10 years away, and I hope Tezos is doing well.&#x20;

To quote Kierkegaard “*Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.*”

***

# About the TGAM

Welcome to [The Generative Art Museum](https://tgam.xyz). TGAM is [a space in the metaverse](https://tgam.xyz/visit) dedicated to celebrate and promulgate art made by autonomous systems (non-human) that can independently create artwork.

Our goal is simple: to spread the word about generative art in all shapes and forms. We embrace any piece where humans interact with automated tools to create unique pieces.

Blockchain has created the perfect playground for a digital renaissance: affordable computers and easy-to-use scripting tools are the icing on the cake for a revolution in the generative art like the world has never seen before. And we are here to talk about it and share this exciting journey.

Join us. We are in this together.

***

### Links

-   [The Generative Art Museum Website](https://tgam.xyz/)
-   [The Generative Art Museum Gallery](https://tgam.xyz/visit)
-   [Issue #05: World Wide Art](https://tgam.xyz/exhibitions/issue-05-world-wide-art)
-   [Collect the Brochures](https://tgam.xyz/brochures)
-   [Twitter: @tgamxyz](https://twitter.com/tgamxyz)
-   [Instagram: @tgamxyz](<Instagram: @tgamxyz>)


As part of Issue #05: World Wide Art exhibition at TGAM, we interview pronoia, a dutch art collector and technology lover that has been discovering talent in the digital art ecosystem since its very beginnings, particularly on tezos.

The Generative Art Museum.
A project to spread the word about generative art.

TGAM: A casual chat with pronoia

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